An interview with Neta Golan
The Example of the Crazies
by Neta Golan and Justin Podur
July 10, 2002 Znet
Neta Golan has been described as "a legendary figure" and is one of very few
Israelis who has been arrested, beaten, and harassed repeatedly for working
against the Israeli occupation of Palestine. She lives in the West Bank
where she works with the International Solidarity Movement.
You have said that one way or another this occupation is going to end.
That's far from a foregone conclusion to most. What makes you so sure?
Every occupation, every colonial society that has ever been established, has
ended -- with the exception of the Americas, which required a genocide to
take place. I don't think a genocide is possible in this situation. The only
way Israel could expel the Palestinians is under a regional war. Under the
smokescreen of a regional war, Israel could try to do the 'transfer' that is
planned and proposed by the extreme right.
I don't think a regional war is in the US's interest right now, and without
the US's blessing Israel wouldn't be able to do it. So I think eventually
Israel will tire, as the British tired in India or the French in Algeria or
the Indonesians in Timor. Ultimately, it will end.
There are differences between Israel's occupation and the ones I just
mentioned. 1948 Israel is a settler state and it is certainly colonial, but
the difference between it and France in Algeria is that the Israelis in the
1948 borders don't have anywhere to go. The occupied West Bank and Gaza
strip, though, are more classic colonies. The settlers can, and will, come
back when those occupations end.
But how many will die before that, unnecessarily? How much suffering will it
cost?
Even though I'm sure it is going to end, it still needs people to make it
happen. So we have to make it happen, and we also have to try to make it
happen as soon, and with as little suffering, as possible.
Where do internationals fit in to making the end of occupation?
One possible way the occupation could end is by the international community
pressuring Israel. There's certainly a case under international law for
doing so. Both settlements and collective punishments are illegal under
international law.
International pressure played an important role in ending apartheid in South
Africa. The boycotts were effective, and more important of course was the
resistance on the ground. If there was a full withdrawal of the
international community, I believe the occupation would end.
But where has the international community been? Until the first intifada, no
one even knew Palestinians existed.
As for internationals who come independently, to work with the International
Solidarity Movement (ISM) they're addressing several problems. One specific
problem is that Israel uses excessive force to oppress Palestinian popular
resistance of any kind. Israel does not differentiate between combatants,
nonviolent demonstrators, and people who are just trying to live. Everyone
gets lethal force. And what happens is that the Palestinians don't want to
go as sheep to the slaughter. The occupation is a pressure cooker and it's
explosive.
If popular struggle is closed by snipers, and if the international community
accepts it, then resistance will become more and more violent. The open
avenues are the ones that involve people blowing themselves up. If you can't
have a dignified life, you die fighting. Killing civilians is a crime,
there's no question. But it's important to recognize that if people have
something to live for they don't do this.
Is there proof? When Palestinians believed Oslo would bring them peace, they
waited seven years. Through seven years of expanding settlements and
checkpoints, expanding provocations, Palestinians waited because they
thought it would bring them peace. After seven years they recognized it as a
smokescreen for occupation, and it exploded into the intifada.
The intifada itself started with stone-throwing, which was met by sniper
fire and machine gun fire from tanks.
What we want to do with the International Solidarity Movement is keep an
avenue for popular struggle open. When we accompany Palestinians, because of
the racism of the whole system, the army doesn't treat us as targets the way
they treat Palestinians. We want to expose the racist nature of the conflict
by doing this, and also to simply try to protect people so they can try to
resist politically.
Palestinians asked the world for an international protection force. Such a
force would have reduced violence. Israel and the US prevented it, with the
US vetoing it in the United Nations. Since our governments are acting to
sustain the occupation, civilians have to come here themselves to work as a
civilian protection force. The hope is that at some point our governments
will follow.
What do you think happens if we fail?
Every Arab civilian in the world knows that their blood is cheap.
Iraqis, Afghanis, Palestinians. They are paying a high price for the West's
racism, being killed, humiliated. Those things create terrorism. Israeli and
US state terror and the reaction in 'retail' terrorism are two sides of the
same coin and they can't exist without each other. We're creating that,
feeding it, in the Arab world. And one source that feeds it, that tells
Arabs their blood is cheap, is what is happening in Palestine.
For Westerners to say we refuse to do this, we refuse to believe that our
lives are worth any more than Arab lives, is an important message for all of
us. It makes everyone safer.
Bush, Sharon, they're leading us down a road very dangerous for our future.
For our present! The West has already paid a little bit, with the attacks in
New York, for the hatred they are creating. There will only be more
backlash. So for those of us who want a sane world, for those of us who
don't want to live in a world that is at war, resisting this conflict in a
just way is in our own interest.
Interesting that you mentioned 'a sane world'. Here in Israel, and I guess
elsewhere, we're the ones who are thought of as 'insane'. I'm sure you've
been called 'crazy', no?
One problem is the disinformation. Hardly anybody who would call us 'crazy'
knows what's going on here and if they did, if they came here, they would be
motivated in the same ways that we are. But they would have to get up from
behind their televisions.
In the Israeli media, the only image of Arabs is violence. The human side,
the suffering, is hidden from us. I believe that if they saw people, just
like them, suffering the way they are, they would be motivated the same way.
I'm a Jewish Israeli. As a Jew, I carry a wound. I know my people suffered a
genocide. They tried to tell the world; people didn't come, believe, know,
want to know, do anything.
Some did. A few did, and they were called 'crazy' at the time. I want to do
for the Palestinians what those 'crazies' did for the Jews, I want to take
their example, and the truth is that it's easier for us to do what we do now
than it was then. There are Israelis who support our work here.
Israeli society is going through a collective turn to fascism. It is
supporting assassinations, extra-judicial executions, openly. These things
are really scary. I feel it, I feel like we're in the middle of an unfolding
catastrophe and I think, quite often, of those 'crazies' in Germany who
resisted. I feel closer to them all the time.
Many of the activists who have been coming here are also working on an
ongoing basis with the 'anti-globalization' movement. If it's all part of a
movement for justice, what do you think the next steps should be?
I would love to see the tens of thousands of people who go to a G-8 meeting
or a World Bank meeting come here, where the terrible decisions they make
are actually being implemented. With several thousand activists we could
dismantle checkpoints, break sieges of all kinds, we could make a real
difference on the ground where the policies are actually being implemented.
I think it would be great to disrupt the implementation of the policies
rather than only the planning of them.
Politically speaking, a kind of anti-imperialist, anti-neoliberal force
could reach out to moderate Muslims. Muslims' choices seem to be imperialism
or resistance that takes a fundamentalist form. What about resistance that
is anti-imperialist and not fundamentalist? If our ideas could reach, and
interest, the Muslim community it would add strength and depth to both
movements, and give new avenues and political options to people.
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